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Society's Investment in Losing
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Caution: This topic has a better than average potential to devolve. Let's exhibit restraint and keep this a civil, mature discussion. There are likely topics that just should not be brought up. We should intentionally avoid current issues as they tend to burn too close to home. Try to keep the examples and conversation focused on the World War II time period.

Let's explore. Why are we piling resources into remembering failure? Why aren't we allocating resources toward honoring significant victories?

I'll start with two significant defeats experienced by the United States during World War II:
Pearl Harbor
Bataan Death March

Where should the emphasis be placed?
Victory - Defeat
Strength - Weakness
Win - Lose
Pride - Guilt
We are programing the next generation...

In the short-tem, it made sense for political leaders to draw attention to an 'unprovoked' attack or the improper treatment of prisoners of war. Mobilizing, rallying a whole nation to jump on the wagon to go to war. Interestingly, the outcry of the traumatic event persists to this day. The defeat still steals most of the attention and overshadows an event like D-Day, the largest amphibious landing in the history of mankind. Shouldn't there have been a change in emphasis?

Shouldn't D-Day be a national holiday? There are currently ten U.S. federal holidays. Are we investing resources in the proper areas?

The attention directed toward specific events is not just official government recognition, but in the news media and entertainment.

Posted on: 2016/8/21 13:56
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Re: Society's Investment in Losing
#2
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I guess I don't understand the title of this topic.

"Society's Investment in Losing"

I always thought that the attention to things like Pearl Harbor or the Bataan Death March was out of respect for those who died.

Posted on: 2016/8/22 14:06
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Re: Society's Investment in Losing
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I always considered Bataan and Wake Island pseudo-victories as they pushed the Japanese time table back. And made them expend resources they didn't have.

Been to Wake Island in real life could not believe how many people died on that tiny island. The POW Rock was very humbling.




Posted on: 2016/8/27 15:59
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Re: Society's Investment in Losing
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BushElito wrote:
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Well, in Lithuania, we focus more on the soviet repressions and mass exile.

Honestly, nothing is great about war. World war 2 was the bloodiest one, and something should be avoided and prevented from happening again.

Though, talking about it to bring up peoples awareness shouldn’t be avoided.


keymaster1234 wrote:
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Its fine the US celebrating D Day but is Germany suppose to celebrate that or the time they nearly took over Europe?

Its fine saying we should remember X because of Y but they can’t do the same becasue it isn’t politically correct and it would be rather messed up to make them celebrate being defeated.

This is my view as a person who isn’t American or German.


keymaster1234 wrote:
Quote:
The reason events like Pearl Harbor get so much attention in the US will partly be because of the on going need to justify the war to begin with, it doesn’t matter whether or not the average person knows who, what, when, how or why just so long as they know the war itself was "necessary".

The Japanese actually attempted to negotiate with the US and were willing to pull out of most of china and Indonesia but the US rejected that as well as any other attempts to reach some form of agreement.

The attack on Pearl Harbor was basically the result of the US interfering with the on going war between the Japaneses and the Chinese.

Your question might seem simple in itself but its not, there’s a lot of layers to it, bringing more attention to a particular event during the war ultimately brings more attention to the war itself and indirectly why it begun in the first place, Politically that’s a bad thing for the US Government in this instance when all that matters is weather or not the people know it was "necessary".


keymaster1234 wrote:
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I don’t even think that what you’re saying is even happening. Americans consider D-Day a source of pride but it’s not what defeated the Nazis, like a lot of American propaganda suggests. Most Americans have never heard of the Bataan Death March or crimes against POW’s, but everyone has heard of the Holocaust. In America, the standard "emphasis" regarding WW2 is that "Hitler was conquering the world until the Americans came in and stopped him, thus saving the planet earth…. I don’t know how more "resources" can be allocated towards honoring significant victories than that.


sfscriv wrote:
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Who determines what is politically correct? Everyday people make the decision as to what is and is not acceptable.


keymaster1234 wrote:
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Not in America, here the media and the democrat party decide what can and cannot be said without character assassination taking place.


Chepicoro wrote:
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I think is healthy for a nation to remember its failures, just one example the Rome Empire remembered the battle of Cannas for centuries in part because was arguably the worst Roman defeat and put the existence of the Roman Republic in real danger to commemorate a national tragedy force the people to think what was wrong at the time and how to avoid the same mistakes in order to improve the nation.

I am not american, but I can recognize the positive influence of the USA in the XXth century (a much better option for the world than european colonialism, soviet communism, nazism or japanese imperialism), however to remember your mistakes and defeats form time to time is not wrong, at least from my point of view.

Overconfidence could lead to failure, some self criticism is necessary, 2 american examples of ww2.

The tank destroyer doctrine did not work as expected during the war so based on experience was replaced at the end of the war.

The battle of the Bulge came as a surprise to the americans that (most of them) never expected a german offensive at that scale so late in the war.

To admit that sometimes things were wrong is the only way to rectify and improve.

Posted on: 2016/8/28 20:17
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